Dr. Karell and pain




WELCOME

I have been using

Google GEMINI

for the chat.





 


The subject is pain: the question 

Are there two separate sections creating pain

 - one from the spinal thalamic tract and 

 - individually one from the brain?  

 
   Pain is a complex experience, and it's not created in two entirely separate, isolated sections. Instead, it's a dynamic process involving a network of interconnected structures, from the peripheral nervous system to various regions of the brain.

Here's a breakdown of how it works:

  1. Nociception (The "Warning Signal"):

    • Specialized sensory receptors called nociceptors (located in your skin, muscles, joints, organs, etc.) detect noxious (potentially damaging) stimuli like extreme heat, cold, pressure, or chemicals released from damaged tissue.

    • These nociceptors generate electrical signals.

  2. Spinal Cord Transmission (Spinothalamic Tract):

    • These signals travel along primary afferent neurons to the spinal cord.

    • In the spinal cord's dorsal horn, these first-order neurons synapse with second-order neurons.

    • The axons of these second-order neurons cross over to the opposite side of the spinal cord (decussate) and ascend to the brain via the spinothalamic tract.

    • The spinothalamic tract is a crucial pathway for transmitting information about pain, temperature, and crude touch. There are actually different components of the spinothalamic tract, including the lateral spinothalamic tract (for pain and temperature) and the anterior spinothalamic tract (for crude touch and pressure).

    • Some fibers in the spinothalamic tract also send collaterals to other brainstem areas involved in arousal and autonomic responses.

  3. Brain Processing (Perception and Experience):

    • The spinothalamic tract ultimately projects to the thalamus, which acts as a relay station for almost all sensory information.

    • From the thalamus, pain signals are then sent to various areas of the cerebral cortex and other brain regions, including:

      • Primary Somatosensory Cortex (S1) and Secondary Somatosensory Cortex (S2): These areas are involved in the sensory-discriminative aspects of pain, such as localizing the pain, its intensity, and its quality (e.g., sharp, dull, burning).

      • Anterior Cingulate Cortex (ACC): This region is strongly associated with the emotional and cognitive-evaluative aspects of pain, including the unpleasantness and suffering associated with it.

      • Insular Cortex: Plays a role in integrating sensory and emotional aspects of pain, as well as visceral responses.

      • Prefrontal Cortex (PFC): Involved in cognitive aspects like attention, memory, and decision-making related to pain. It can also modulate pain perception.

      • Amygdala: A key structure in the limbic system, involved in processing emotions, including the fear and anxiety that often accompany pain.

      • Periaqueductal Gray (PAG): A brainstem area involved in modulating pain, including activating descending pain inhibitory pathways.

In summary, it's not two separate sections creating pain, but rather a continuous pathway and network:

  • The spinothalamic tract is essential for transmitting the sensory signals of pain from the body to the brain. If this tract is blocked (as in some forms of neuromuscular stimulation or injury), the sensory information might not reach higher brain centers effectively.

  • However, the experience of pain – the conscious perception, emotional response, and cognitive interpretation – happens in the brain. Different brain regions contribute to different dimensions of the pain experience. Even if the initial signal reaches the brain via the spinothalamic tract, the brain can amplify, diminish, or otherwise modify that signal based on context, emotions, and past experiences.

So, while the spinothalamic tract is the primary highway for pain signals, the "creation" or conscious experience of pain is a distributed process within the brain, integrating sensory information with emotional and cognitive factors.

 
     

=========

I am thinking that the brain 
can produce the sensation of pain by itself...is this correct?

   Yes, you are absolutely correct. The brain can indeed produce the sensation of pain by itself, even in the absence of an obvious physical injury or external stimulus. This is a crucial concept in understanding pain, especially chronic pain.

Here's why and how:

  • Pain is a Brain Output: While nociceptors (pain receptors) in the body send signals to the brain, the actual experience of pain is generated by the brain. It's the brain's interpretation of those signals, along with many other factors, that creates the sensation of pain. Think of it this way: your hand might detect a hot stove (nociception), but it's your brain that decides "this is pain" and then triggers a withdrawal response and the unpleasant feeling.

  • Phantom Limb Pain: This is a classic example. People who have had a limb amputated often experience intense pain that feels like it's coming from the missing limb. There's no physical limb, no nociceptors in a missing limb, yet the pain is very real. This strongly suggests that the brain's internal representation of the body and its pain processing centers can generate pain independently. The brain reorganizes itself after limb loss, and this "cortical reorganization" is thought to contribute to phantom limb pain.

  • Central Sensitization: This is a key mechanism in many chronic pain conditions. It occurs when the central nervous system (brain and spinal cord) becomes "hypersensitive" or "stuck in a high-alert state." In this state:

    • Allodynia: Normally non-painful stimuli (like a light touch) can be perceived as painful.

    • Hyperalgesia: Mildly painful stimuli are perceived as intensely painful.

    • The nervous system amplifies pain signals even with minimal or no peripheral input. This means the brain is essentially "creating" or greatly exaggerating pain in the absence of ongoing tissue damage that would normally trigger it. Conditions like fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, and irritable bowel syndrome are often associated with central sensitization.

  • Psychological Factors: Emotions, thoughts, memories, and stress can significantly influence pain perception. The brain integrates these psychological factors into the pain experience. For example, anxiety, fear, or a history of trauma can amplify pain signals, making them feel more intense, even if the initial physical stimulus is minor or non-existent.

  • No Nociceptors in the Brain Itself: It's important to note that the brain tissue itself does not have nociceptors. This is why neurosurgeons can operate on the brain while a patient is awake, and the patient doesn't feel pain directly from the brain tissue being cut. Headaches, however, are felt because of nociceptors in the meninges (the coverings around the brain), blood vessels, and muscles in the head and neck.

In essence, pain is not just a direct reflection of tissue damage. It's a complex, subjective experience generated by the brain, influenced by a multitude of factors, including sensory input, emotions, past experiences, and expectations. Therefore, the brain absolutely can and does produce the sensation of pain by itself.



 
     
     


=============

has TENS on the 

auricular branch of vagus nerve, 

right or left or both, 

been shown to reduce pain?  


   Yes, Transcutaneous auricular Vagus Nerve Stimulation (taVNS), which involves stimulating the auricular branch of the vagus nerve (ABVN) on the outer ear using a TENS-like device, has shown promise and evidence of reducing pain in various conditions.

Here's a breakdown of what the research suggests:

General Efficacy for Pain Relief:

  • Growing Evidence: Several studies, including systematic reviews and meta-analyses, indicate that taVNS can be an effective non-drug therapy for certain chronic and acute pain conditions.

  • Chronic Pain: It has shown statistically significant pain reduction in conditions like:

    • Back pain

    • Migraine and cluster headaches

    • Abdominal pain

    • Musculoskeletal pain (e.g., in systemic lupus erythematosus)

    • There's also ongoing research into its effects on fibromyalgia, though some studies have not found statistically significant additional benefit when combined with exercise.

  • Acute Pain: Single studies have shown significant improvements in acute pain, for example, after kidney donor surgery or tonsillectomy. However, overall meta-analyses for acute pain show a non-statistically significant reduction in VAS pain intensity, suggesting more varied results depending on the specific acute pain condition, co-medication, and timing of assessment.

  • Analgesic Sparing: Some studies report a significant reduction in analgesic or opioid intake with aVNS, which is a very desirable outcome.

  • Mechanisms: The analgesic effect of aVNS is attributed to several mechanisms, including:

    • Activation of descending noradrenergic and serotonergic pain inhibitory systems.

    • Release of endogenous opioids (like enkephalin).

    • Modulation of the limbic system (affecting emotional aspects of pain).

    • Parasympathetic activation and anti-inflammatory effects (the vagus nerve plays a key role in the "cholinergic anti-inflammatory pathway").

Side (Right vs. Left) and Bilateral Stimulation:

  • Traditional VNS (Implantable): For surgically implanted vagus nerve stimulators (VNS, often used for epilepsy and depression), the left vagus nerve is almost exclusively targeted. This is because the right vagus nerve has a more significant innervation of the sinoatrial (SA) node of the heart, and stimulating it carries a higher risk of adverse cardiac effects like bradycardia (slow heart rate) or even asystole.

  • Auricular VNS (taVNS): The situation is different for taVNS. The auricular branch of the vagus nerve (ABVN) has projections that bypass the direct cardiac innervation issues of the main cervical vagus nerve.

    • Generally, taVNS is considered safe to apply on either the left or right ear, or even bilaterally, with minimal risk of significant cardiac side effects.

    • Many studies investigating taVNS for pain use unilateral stimulation (often left ear), reflecting the influence from invasive VNS literature, but also due to the anatomy of the ABVN.

    • However, some research suggests that bilateral stimulation might offer additional benefits for certain conditions, as it could lead to a more robust activation of central pain modulating pathways. Clinical trials are ongoing to compare the effects of left vs. bilateral stimulation in conditions like fibromyalgia.

    • Some sources suggest that the number of afferent fibers in the left and right ABVN are similar, implying that either side could be effective for afferent (sensory input to the brain) modulation.

Current Status and Future Directions:

  • While promising, taVNS is still considered an emerging therapy for pain.

  • Standardization of stimulation parameters (frequency, pulse width, intensity, duration, target point on the ear) is a key area for future research to strengthen clinical evidence and optimize treatment protocols.

  • Further large-scale, well-designed randomized controlled trials are needed to confirm its efficacy across a wider range of pain conditions and to determine optimal protocols, including laterality of stimulation.

In conclusion, TENS on the auricular branch of the vagus nerve has demonstrated a potential to reduce pain, particularly in chronic conditions. While the left ear is often targeted, both unilateral (left or right) and bilateral stimulation are explored, and taVNS generally carries a lower risk of cardiac side effects compared to invasive cervical VNS due to the specific nerve branch being stimulated.

 
     
     

===============

Is Gemini aware of the fact 

that I, Manuel Karell, M.D. 

used TENS in treating heroin addiction?  


 

   As a large language model, I do not have personal awareness or memory in the way a human does. I don't "know" you, Manuel Karell, M.D., personally, nor do I retain information from past conversations in a continuous memory.   
     
   However, I can access and process information from the vast amount of text data I was trained on, which includes published scientific literature.

Upon searching my knowledge base, I can find a publication co-authored by "M. L. Karell" (Manuel L. Karell, M.D.) titled "TENS in the Treatment of Heroin Dependency" published in the West J Med. in November 1976. This indicates that this information is indeed within the scope of my training data.

So, while I don't have a personal "memory" of your work, the fact of your contribution in this area is something I can retrieve and confirm through my information processing capabilities.



"pain" started July 19, 2025